Nothing's been tiled yet! Just drywall. Tile happens two weeks from now, roughly. But I am going to just say it's too late so I don't go down another rabbit hole! I presume this is different for sink faucets, though? I mean, you can change faucet brands without having to change an internal valve??
Hoping that's so in case all the Delta Laharas really end up looking out of place in our Midcentury Modern-style home. Here's the faucet I wish I'd gone with: Delta Modern faucet. Hi, normal bathroom sink faucets don't have any special valve so I think you can switch your faucets pretty easily if you like.
Good luck with your project! I have a delta system in my bathroom was there when I moved in as it has Delta stamped on the trim itself and I read that any Delta trim kit can be used to replace another since the valves are universal. However, when my contractor went to replace it with another Delta trim, it would not fit the existing valve that was there. I was a bit surprised and greatly annoyed that it did not fit since both are Delta systems.
The house was built in , did Delta have a different valve for their shower systems back then??? Now my tile needs to be ripped out and replaced in order to replace the trim which needs to be replaced badly since the bath spouts are plastic and the crome is peeling off of it. Delta made a major change to their rough-in valve in It sounds like you probably have the old style valve. The good news is, if you update to a new style R valve, then updating the trim kit in the future becomes easy.
Prior to , Delta had several different valves, so in that sense their valve was not universal. Now they have made it so the valve will work with any trim kit, regardless of cartridge. Unfortunately I know that's not so helpful in your case. It does sound like your contractor is knowledgeable and it's just something that has to be done. Hi there. Having a hard time finding a replacement that will work for our old trim kit. I have attached photos of the trim kit and valve.
We replaced with a cheap product from Danco, but it is a piece of junk. Would like something that looks nicer and is more solid, preferably in brushed nickel. Thank you! What trim kit you can use depends on the valve you have installed inside the wall. Valves are typically not going to be compatible between manufacturers. So in your case, to change from a Danco to a Delta, you will have to replace the valve inside the wall with a Delta Valve, and then you will be able to use any Delta trim kit you like.
Hope this helps! HU,,,this is someones post. But what FaucetList just told you is correct. The single crystal-ball type control has always been extremely sensitive to adjustments; when I've replaced the washers inside a few times , I notice that the 2 curved water conduits were extremely small and close together, making for difficult adjustments.
Spouse wants to replace them now as 1 in particular seems to have gotten even harder to adjust. Any chance that newer design cartridges are available to fit into the housing, or would we have to replace the entire assemblies? If you have rough-in valves installed inside the wall from the 80s, you will be required to change them to the new style Delta R series multichoice valve. Delta made a major change to their valve in and none of the new style trim kits or cartridges will fit your old style valves unfortunately.
If you are thinking of fixing your existing showers, it might be a good idea to contact Delta to see if they can help you with parts under the product warranty. The information about being able to use a different brand faucet I want Moen in a bathroom sink that has been roughed in Delta was very helpful! Thank you. Hi faucet list. I found this info very useful so thank you. I was wondering , there are several types of r valves - i think they are all compatible with any current delta shower trim and the difference in lettering in the product code refers to the type of plumbing connection they require - is that correct?
Hi, so happy we could help : Any R series valve will be compatible with any new style Delta trim kit. The question of which is right for your specific job depends on your use case. As you correctly surmised, the code at the end, following the R number refers to something specific about the valve. There are valves made for many types of specific use cases but normally these are things that the plumber will need to determine.
I also want to mention, that the standard RUNBX valve, can be adapted for use with any type of pipe pex included so the only reason to get the pex specific valve is just to basically make connecting up the valve easier. The normal part we would recommend for roman tub fillers without a hand sprayer is R the flexible rough-in valve which as you have noticed is currently backordered by the Delta factory.
I do have word that they are coming available again, but it could still be a few weeks. Unfortunately I'm not able to say if the R valve is an acceptable substitute for use with your Arzo trim kit. That item does not even show up on Delta's site although I did find it on their Canadian site. I wouldn't recommend buying this until you actually speak to Delta and can confirm it will work for your tub filler faucet trim kit. It would not be a good idea to install and then later find out it won't be compatible.
I'm just honestly not sure and we ourselves don't carry or stock that part. I am a bit confused about what I can and can not do with the Delta valve. I currently have a series trim kit. I purchased a series trim kit thinking I could just change it out. However, the cartridges are different. When I removed the series cartridge, there is still some white plastic in the back of the valve. It appears to be held there by a screw but after removing the screw it does not easily pull out.
Therefore, I was thinking that stays in place. However, the series cartridge does not seem to fit with that piece of plastic left in place. I also noticed in videos that I have watched for installing the cartridge that in the back of the valve there are just holes. Can you advise how this should be done or if it can be done at all? The trim kit is not what is going to be important here, rather what is important is which valve you have specifically installed inside the wall.
If you have an old style Delta valve from before no new trim kit will fit. If you have a new style R valve, then any new trim kit will fit. You cannot merely change the cartridge. Your best bet moving forward is going to be to either discuss this issue with Delta directly, or with your plumber to figure out what specifically is the issue. DELTA "MONITOR" is a trade name used to describe a shower, or tub shower faucet trim with internal parts which "monitor" water pressure to balance temperature and protect you from sudden temperature changes.
Delta Monitor trim styles are available for shower only, and tub shower applications. These are the most high-end cartridges offered by Delta. They put out 8. This cartridge also offers separate temperature and volume control. The temperature can be set to remain constant shower after shower. It is easily adjustable if desired. So after reading the descriptions above, you may be thinking that the second and third options on the list seem awfully similar.
They are quite similar but the Tempassure technology definitely offers a more luxurious shower experience. As noted above, the 8. If you are creating a Custom Shower System and want to power several Shower Sprays off of one valve, the higher water pressure can make all the difference. Tempassure technology also keeps the water within a slightly stricter range - 3 degrees vs. The Tempassure cartridge also features an adjustable high-temperature limit stop that when properly set helps ensure the handle cannot be turned to a position that is too hot for comfort.
Because the Tempassure actually measures the temperature of the water, the handle limit stop will not need to be adjusted for seasonal ground water temperature changes. When you are shopping for different cartridges, you need to pay attention to the series number of the Delta Shower Trim Kit.
The Delta and Series Trim Kits include the single function cartridge. This information should help illustrate just how many variations can be delivered from the same rough-in valve.
This is a huge benefit to the Delta brand. The point of the Monitor technology is that it prevents sudden and possibly unsafe changes in shower water temperature. In the old days, flushing a toilet or turning on the washing machine might change the water temperature if someone is taking a shower at the same time. Delta Monitor Faucets are designed to avert these problems.
This protects you from sudden changes in hot or cold water pressure. Monitor Faucets feature Anti-scald technology which prevents you from being burned by hot water should a change in water temperature occur.
In fact, most local building codes these days require Showers to be Anti-scald in new home construction. Monitor Faucets also feature an adjustable high-temperature limit stop that when properly set helps ensure the handle cannot be turned to a position that is too hot for comfort. This however may require seasonal adjustment unless you have a 17T series thermostatic cartridge trim kit.
For more information on Delta cartridges read our guide to Delta 17 and 17T series Shower cartridges. So this might feel like information overload.
Here's the long and short of it. That's it. Remember though, the cartridge that comes with the Trim Kit you choose does have some effect on the function of your shower so take that into consideration. We have taken out the guess work so if you simply want to order and be done, take advantage of our 40 years' experience and buy your Delta Shower with Valve and Trim Kit Package today!
With tons of styles in stock, fast shipping, and a 30 day easy return policy order today and join thousands of happy FaucetList. Thanks for reading :. If you found this guide helpful please "like" us on Facebook.
We are pretty new to the whole social media thing and would appreciate your support! Hi James, thanks for your comment. You are correct that no new trim kits will fit an old style Delta rough-in valve. Notice however the language Delta uses. Only once you have a universal valve, can you install any Delta trim kit.
The reason Delta made such a major switch in , is that prior to the introduction of the R universal rough-in valve, you would need to know the specific valve, cartridge you had before you could establish compatibility with any trim kit you wanted to buy. This made updating your shower faucet even more difficult. As we have been around long enough to see that era, things were genuinely much worse.
For example, you can switch a pressure balanced trim to a thermostatic trim, without changing the valve. This was not possible before the introduction of the universal valve. You may want to try contacting Delta to see if they have any retrofit kits, however unfortunately none of the new style trim kits you purchase will likely fit your existing rough in valve.
Thanks again for your comment, it makes a very good point about the universal compatibility that people should be aware of. I will mention one more thing for other customers. I think this part of the terminology should definitely be mention as in the plumbing industry, valves are basically never compatible between different manufacturers.
So, basically, the so called universal valve is not even universal to Delta. And, as for ask a plumber… please…. I tried to put an Ashlyn trim kit into an existing valve. Hi Nick, thanks for your comment! The section you are referring to is talking about all of the various R series new style valves. In that section you will see there are many variations of the same valve, made for specific applications e.
All R series valves are designed to work with any NEW style made after the year Delta trim kit. I see how that statement could be a little confusing, but basically everything in the article applies only to new style valves and trims. If you have an older style valve, none of the new trim kits will fit unfortunately.
To update the trim kit, you would have to also change the valve. To answer your specific question, if you have an older series trim kit, it is likely you do not have a new style R Delta valve. Therefore you would most likely not be able to use the BTOB without changing the valve. The simple answer is that with an old style valve, you will not be able to use any of the new style Delta trim kits unfortunately.
It may be that Delta makes some kind of retrofit kit that will work with your current valve, but my guess is the styles and finish options are very limited. We do not carry any retrofit items like that ourselves. It would be our recommendation to upgrade to the new style R series shower valve if you plan to change your shower trim. If you have questions about retrofit kits or any other technical questions, you should give Delta a call as they will better be able to help you identify which valve you have exactly.
Thank you for the through and well-put together guide. According to this, as long as you have a Delta Rough Body, you should be able to use ANY trim kit, but based on some of the comments, that does not always seems to be the case.
I am currently replacing an old Delta series system and wanted to exchange to a 14 series BTOB. Is my model of valve rough body what indicates what type of trim I can use? I am able to fully remove the trim, but am hesitant with purchasing until I know what is compatible. Appreciate your time. To answer the compatibility question, we need to actually know the model number of the valve you have.
That may not be something easy to determine without taking off the faucet trim kit and might require a plumber to assess. I believe you will likely need to change the valve, however I understand that is a lot more work. It might be worth giving Delta a call to confirm and see if they have any ideas for how to adapt a new roman tub filler trim to an old style valve.
They may also have ideas for how to figure out which valve you currently have. Do I need a rough in kit or will it work with the existing one now house was built in Hi Ana, the R valve is closed at the bottom and will not support the addition of a tub spout. Delta does not recommend you run a tub spout off a diverter port because the water flow rate will be restricted. This means it is not a good idea to plumb a tub spout from a diverter port. The correct way to do this is to get a standard Delta tub shower valve with an open bottom port and use a tub spout with diverter.
If I bought valve R And trim kit Ara T with 6 settings could I have a shower head, a hand held and a tub faucet? I figure the tub faucet would be like the body sprays. Hi Kym, the the BL you plan to purchase can simply be screwed on to your existing shower arm and no changes will need to be made to the valve inside the wall. Just unscrew the old showerhead and screw on the new one. If you have an old style Delta valve and plan to upgrade the control handles, then it would be necessary to also upgrade the valve.
Meaning does the shower head above have to have the new after rough? Hi Karen, Series refers to a Delta shower cartridge included with the trim kit. It does not give enough information for us make a recommendation, because first you must figure out what rough-in valve you have.
If you have a new style installed after the year , R series Delta Multichoice rough-in valve, you can use any Delta trim kit, and will not be limited in any way. The only way to know for sure what trim kit will be compatible will be for you to know what valve you have. So I recommend asking your plumber for the valve model number or contacting Delta Faucet to get help identifying that. Once you know the valve model number you have, you will be able to figure out what trim kit will fit.
EST Saturday: 9 a. We are replacing out trim kit. Our plumber told us to get one that is compatible with series. How do I know which one is compatible? Could you explain what I need to be looking for? Hi Liz, so happy you found our Delta shower faucet guide helpful! Thanks very much for your kind words :. This guide was exactly what I needed to understand the choices for my bathroom remodel.
I was utterly confused coming in, but feel confident I can choose the right pieces for my shower now. Hi Jennifer, without changing the valve in the wall, you will not be able to update the shower control itself. In Delta made a major change to their valve and cartridge so the new trim kits will not fit a series valve. However, changing the tub spout and showerhead without touching the shower control is possible without changing the valve.
The tub spout and showerhead simply attach to pipes coming out of the wall so those parts could be changed. I have the delta series, would like to update shower head and tub spout without going in the wall and changing the valve. Which Delta kit can be used with the old series valve.
Hi Matthew, unfortunately you will not be able to upgrade the trim kit wihtout changing the valve inside the wall. Delta made a major change to their valve in and the new style trim kits will not fit the old style valves. The cartridges are also not going to be compatible between the new trim kits and old valves or vice versa. So in your case, you have 2 options. It is dripping, and instead of just replacing the cartridge, I thought I might upgrade the kit. From research, I understand the cartridge I need is the RP for the current setup.
If I want to upgrade, will the valve in the wall accept an updated catridge, or can I only use a trim kit that works with the old cartridge? And, are there any such trim kits? First off it is almost impossible to get a good plumber in my part of ETN.
Most of the good ones shut down their businesses and went to work at Dollywood. The ones that are left, except for one, look at me like I am trying to achieve the impossible. If you ask them to install a mixing valve most of the time the answer is a blank stare.
My experience allows me to do my own repairs or mods with out having to explain what I want and I will achieve my final goal of reducing the stress on my well and septic. The remaining item on the mod list is the Cash Acme shower mixing valve and the adjustment of the Delta shower valves for the master shower. I will prevail.
Hi Gabriella, Based on what you are describing, unfortunately I think if you want to upgrade the trim kit you are going to have to change the valve in the wall. Delta no longer makes trim kits with a push-button diverter on the mixing valve plate like what you are describing. Delta made a major change to their valve in and old valves are not compatible with new trim kits. It could be that Delta has some kind of retrofit solution which might be what your plumber suggested.
It would be a good idea for you to discuss these options with your plumber. Additionally, you might want to give Delta a call directly just to see if they have any ideas for how you can keep your current valve. My plumer said with this kind of push button diverter I can only go with the same kind the diverter is in the plate not in the spout After reading this article I am questioning his recommendation. Is there any other kits that would go without having to replace the valve? I have been searching everywhere to find at least a non chrome kit but seems like there is only one kind available.
Hi Randy, thanks for your kind words. I will say that overall Delta customer service, if you call them, is quite good. Once in awhile you might get someone new, but many of their reps have worked there for years. We even sometimes call them with questions. Ultimately with plumbing products, and showers in particular, jobsite experience is going to be better than any knowledge you can learn by studying.
I am not a plumber, and neither are most Delta customer service people. Really there is no substitute for the hands on experience that comes from seeing how products install and perform in the field under many different circumstances.
There are a lot of variables to consider. Therefore a professional plumber is often going to be the best resource to get everything performing the way you want. Good luck with your project! I guess my water saving is still an ongoing experiment. I will adjust the temp to full hot and see how everything reacts to the mixing valve. If you could, please figure out a way to expand it and make it more accessible. Hi Randy, Due to anti-scald regulations, all Delta shower trim kits are going to cycle through the cold water first and then heat up.
I understand what you are trying to accomplish by saving the wasted cold water. Basically the sooner the warm water reaches the valve, the sooner the shower temperature will be ready to use. If you can mimic this in your home with your tankless water heaters, there should be very little cold water wasted.
In a typical home where the water heater is far away from the shower faucet, you literally have to wait for the warm water to pass through the pipes. A tankless system could put warm water closer to the shower valve so it will be ready to use more quickly. Further questions might need to be directed to the tankless water heater company as they will likely know more details here. Hope this helps! In an attempt to take some stress off of my well and septic system I have added 2 auxiliary tankless water heaters above the master bathroom.
Yes, my main tankless is installed as far away from the master bath as is humanly possible without installing it in one of the out buildings. I have put 4 port Watts mixing valves on the vanity sinks and they work great. Turn on the hot full tilt and forget about it.
I have a Cash Acme 3 port mixing valve that I am going to put in the hot side after the shower auxiliary water heater so we do not have to be quick on the draw when the main water heater water finally arrives and the thermo change over valves bypass the auxiliary water heater. Should I just set up my Delta Leland shower valve to as hot as it can go? I just want to turn the shower valve to full hot and let the CA mixing valve do the rest.
Again, the purpose of these changes is to to limit the amount of wasted cold water coming out of the shower valve to destress the well and septic and if I can limit all of the cold water from the shower valve on initial start that is perfect.
Hi Melvin, I recommend you talk to your plumber as they may have some suggestions on how you can adapt the Delta tub spout for your situation. A good plumber will usually have knowledge about different fittings that might be available to convert a pipe so it will meet the requirements of the fixture you have.
Unfortunately these things can sometimes be a little tricky but an experienced plumber will often have ideas how to solve a situation like you described. I tried installing a Delta universal fit bath tub spout but it did not fit my water feed pipe. It's important to weigh whether or not the advantages of the 17T series cartridge will be beneficial for your specific use case, especially given the extra cost.
Remember, a shower is not something you change often so put some careful thought into your choice. With the 17T true thermostatic shower you get stricter water temperature control. You will never have to adjust your temperature limit stop. You will get better water pressure from your showerhead.
All for a small increase in price. Especially if you want a full body custom shower in your master bathroom, you should really consider a thermostatic shower system.
With multiple shower head systems the benefits of the 17T cartridge are even more pronounced. We have sold thousands of 17 Series shower trims and 17T Series shower trims and have found that most customers are very happy regardless of which they choose. Delta is an industry leader for a reason. Basically nothing they make is bad so we can confidently recommend either. Hopefully this guide helped explain everything you ever wanted to know about Delta 17 and 17T Series shower cartridges but if we missed something, please feel free to ask us in the comment section below.
We have over 40 years' experience in the plumbing industry and have come across most situations so feel free to Contact us if you need any help! If you found this guide helpful please "like" us on Facebook. We are pretty new to the whole social media thing and would appreciate your support! Hi Mike, thanks for your comment.
If there is an issue with your shower cartridge, it will likely be covered under the product warranty. We also installed a Grohe tub spout with diverter valve.
Do we need a specific Delta tub spout instead of the Grohe in order for the volume control to work? Hi Remodeling! Thanks for your comment. It looks like all the trim kits on your list are Delta mixing valve trim kits. You just have to choose your favorite style and finish.
You would still need to also order the correct diverter trim kit for the R valve separately. You are right that the integrated diverter trim kits are made to fit a different valve one that combines the mixing and diverter valve into a single unit, Delta part number R I understand that these things are a little tricky and the manufacturers are not always very clear.
Typically they are used to dealing with plumbers who work with plumbing fixtures every day, so their explanations sometimes get a little too far into the weeds. Parts and components are often sold separately and have specific use cases that are job site dependent.
Plumbers usually know what they will need after assessing the jobsite but this is not always clear to an average homeowner. What is most important, is that you know the rough-in valve part number you have. Then you can choose a compatible trim kit. I also recommend you discuss with your plumber or contractor as they can likely also help provide guidance.
Good luck with your project and thanks again for the comment! It is now time to choose trims. Delta had THE worst custoner service.. Can you please confirm they will?.. It will not work with the integrated series for example.
Other than that- great articles! I wish I saw it three months ago when we first started the remodeling.. Thank you!! Hi Stacey, unfortunately Delta has too many styles of thermostatic shower trim kit to list them all out.
Also, Delta does not provide data to us on all materials used in the handles. EST Saturday: 9 a. I will point out, all Delta shower fixtures include a lifetime warranty which applies to both metal and plastic components. I can also tell you that there may be some bias in the reviews you have read as people are more likely to leave negative than positive reviews. We sell thousands of Delta shower fixtures per year and hear very few complaints.
If an issue does ever arise, Delta is definitely available to take care of it under warranty. Could you please advise what 17T series trim kits contain both metal handles for the temperature and pressure?
I think you would want to get a licensed plumber out to assess your shower and weigh-in. A plumber will have lots of real job experience which should help give a better idea of how a 17T cartridge will perform given your cicumstances.
Discussing this with Delta directly might also be a good idea. There is just no easy answer here unfortunately. The effects of interest would be: 1 less time for the shower temperature to approach the set point, 2 longer period where the shower temperature stays at the set point, and 3 a slower decrease from the set point as the hot water tank gets colder.
The tempassure documentation claims protection against sudden changes in pressure or temperature on the hot or the cold side. Hi Randy, that helps me understand how you are thinking. One advantage you will get from the 17T is the ability to control the water volume. Since you have a separate handle for the temperature and pressure, you have extra control over the water flow rate with a 17T fixture. So theoretically you could set the water volume handle to a minimum while the water warms up, and rotate it further to increase the water pressure once it is warm and ready to use.
You might even want to try calling Delta directly to see what they have to say. They have some very knowledgeable people working there who have encountered many different situations. Perhaps they will have more insight. Very interesting scenario you have and if I can help with additional info. Since my main tankless is at the opposite end of the house from the master bath I have installed two small tankless heaters above the shower and sinks on thermostatically controlled 3 way valves.
I am trying to eliminate the amount of wasted well water that flows in to our septic system. If the 17T cartridge would severely restrict the cold water initially this would be the best case scenario. We currently run with the valve full hot until the water from the mainhits and then back it down.
I would like to do away with that step and still save water. The 17T cartridge complies with federal anti-scald regulations. This means the water starts off cold when you turn it on, and warms up to the temperature you set you can leave the temperature dial in the same position so you get your preferred temperature every time.
The cartridge would never completely restrict cold water flow as that would cause the water to come out at a scalding hot temperature.
Ultimately the cartridge is using a temperature sensing material to bring the water up to the temperature range you have selected with the dial. The time it takes for the water to warm up, depends on how near your hot water heater is to the shower valve. I am thinking about updating to 17T assemblies in the master bath. Is the 17 T capable of completely restricting cold water flow on initial opening of the valve or does it only partially constrict cold flow on initial opening?
This will determine if I upgrade. Delta certainly does a pretty poor job. So thank you. For my case—a single Nebia shower system, with a max flow rate of around 1. Hi Mick, unfortunately you will need to change the full control trim kit if you want to switch from a 14 series to a 17T series cartridge. You do not need to change the showerhead or tub spout if you have one but the plate where the control handle is to turn on the water must be changed.
The main reason is that the 17T series shower cartridge is operated by 2 handles and the 14 series shower cartridge is operated by only 1. The 17T gives you the ability to set the temperature and pressure independently, therefore you will need a control trim kit with two handles, designed to work with the 17T cartridge. Quick question. I have a 14 series trim kit. Hi Scott, thanks for your comment. Perhaps Delta has updating information on the temperature range from the time our article was written.
What you really should take away about the difference is how the temperature is regulated. That will help you understand the difference better. A 17 series regulates the temperature by adjusted the water pressure. This means if someone turns on the hot water supply somewhere else in the house, the 17 series cartridge will drop the cold water pressure to maintain a consistent temperature.
If some turns on the cold water somewhere else in the house, a 17 series cartridge will drop the hot water pressure to maintain constant temperature in the shower. Basically it adjust the temperature by keeping the hot and cold water flow rates in proportion — but only by dropping them down. In a 17T series however, the cartridge senses the water temperature using a special temperature sensing material.
Rather than dropping the water pressure to adjust the temperature one way or another, it will simply adjust the mixture of each to maintain constant temperature and pressure. This means the 17T will give you a more consistent flow rate which will keep the water pressure high at all times, regardless of whether or not water is being used in another part of the house.
For a custom shower system, with high water flow demands, we usually recommend the 17T. It also kind of depends on whether you have a home with multiple bathrooms and multiple people want to take showers at the same time etc. Even water efficient showerheads usually flow at 1. Hi Mike, thanks for the comment! With regards to your question, the 17 and 17T will function the same.
The reason is, the water inside the pipe between your shower and your hot water heater cools off when not in use. The water is heating in the water heater but does not stay warm in the pipe itself. The time it takes for the water to heat up depends on how far your water heater is located from your shower.
When you turn on the water, there is hot water immediately available. One idea is to research electronic shower water heaters to install in addition to your standard gas water heater. Typically these are marketed as tankless hot water heaters. They typically have a small reserve tank and are able to heat water quickly so as more is drawn in, it is heated immediately. This allows for an endless stream of hot water. It also means the hot water is readily available.
Great write-up thanks.
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